Frame Data describes how much of an advantage or disadvantage a character is at after a move he or she performs is on block or hit.
| INPUT | RANGE | DMG | SPEED | BLOCK | HIT | CH |
| 1 | h | 5 | 8 | +1 | +7 | +7 |
| 2 | h | 12 | 10 | +1 | +7 | +7 |
| 3 | h | 28 | 14 | -14 | -4 | -2 |
| 4 | h | 16 | 11 | -4 | +5 | JG |
INPUT
This is how to perform the attack. May include alternative inputs to perform the same attack.
RANGE
This is the hit level of the attack. h = High, m = Mid, l = Low. Capital letters mean the attack can also hit grounded opponents. Sm = Special Mid, meaning the attack can be blocked either standing or crouching, and can also be low-parried.
DMG
This is how much damage the attack does on successful hit. If he move has multiple hits, it will display how much damage each individual hit would inflict.
SPEED
This is how many frames the attack would take after the last input is pressed until the attack’s actual impact. This does not include input frames for multiple directional buttons (however they may be listed in parenthesis).
BLOCK
This is how many frames of advantage or disadvantage the attacker would be if the opponent were to block the attack.
HIT
This is how many frames of advantage or disadvantage the attacker would be if the opponent were to get hit by the attack.
CH
This is how many frames of advantage or disadvantage the attacker would be if the attack were to hit while the opponent was trying to perform another attack.
Negative On Block
If a move is -8 on block, the attacking character cannot do anything for 8 frames. This allows the blocking character 8 frames to do anything (in a sense, giving the blocker +8 frames). If the blocking character has an 8 frame jab, this would be an ideal time to perform the attack, as it’s also free damage. Since the attacker cannot do anything for 8 frames and the blocker can perform his 8 frame jab, this is often referred to as an 8 frame punish.
Now let’s say a move is -15 on block. The attacker, this time, cannot do anything for 15 frames. The blocker, in this situation, can still use his 8 frame jab since he or she is free to do anything for those 15 frames. However, this also allows other attacks which may be 10, 12, or 14 frames which may deal stronger damage. Hopkicks in general, are usually 15 frames, and since they’re launchers, they can lead to even stronger damage through a combo. This would make hopkicks as the ideal 15 frame punish.
In general, the best punishers are those that can lead to the most damage. If something on block allows for a free hit, take it. If it allows for a free launcher, even better.
“Safe” On Block
Some moves may be “safe” on block, despite how negative they may be, due to pushback. In this situation, some characters may not have the reach to punish.
Positive On Block
Some moves may be positive. Let’s say a move is +5 on block. This would mean the attacker can do anything for 5 frames (and in the same sense, the blocker is at -5 frames). If the attacker tries to immediately do an 8 frame jab, the opponent can still block it. Now let’s say the blocking opponent tries to attack back with his own 8 frame jab. Since the blocker is at -5 frames, the attacker’s 8 frame jab will be coming out in 8 frames while the blocker’s would come out in 13 frames (8+5=13). Since 8 frames is faster than 13 frames, the attacker’s attack would be the first to hit.
In the same situation, if the attacker were to do a 13 frame attack instead, both attacks would be coming out at the same speed, and would trade hits.
False Advantages
Some moves like the generic Running 3 give false advantages. On block, it gives +17 frames. The attacker can still do anything for 17 frames but the blocker can also block or duck any incoming attacks.. he just can’t attack back during those 17 frames.
Attacks On Whiff
Attacks on “whiff” offer a special situation. There is no frame data for whiffed attacks. However, most attacks on whiff will have the attacker to recover very poorly. If an attack which would usually be -14 on block, were to whiff, the recovery could so bad that an opponent could use a 17 frame attack as a punish. This is why backdashing and sidestep/sidewalking can be very advantageous, turning a defensive maneuver into an offensive attack.
The whiff situation also apply for moves that can be ducked. If a move that was high were to be ducked, the recovery could be so bad, it could allow for something like a launching WS+2…
Speed Of Attacks
Frame data also describes the “speed” of attacks. Tekken runs at a rate of 60 frames per second (60fps), and each attack comes out at a certain number of frames.Let’s take the 8 frame jab example. From the time the button for the jab is pressed, it would take 8 frames before impact to occur.
Input Frames
Some moves may require directional inputs before the attack can come out. In the frame data tables, the speed of moves are listed as the last input is pressed. Paul’s Deathfist (QCF+2), for example, comes out at 13 frames. This, however, does not include the input frames to execute the attack. In Tekken, one input can be entered during every frame. So for Paul, the fastest possible speed to perform his Deathfist would be: d (1 frame), d/f (1 frame), f+2 (13 frames) = 1+1+13 = 15 frames.
By this logic, f,f moves would come out at their listed speed+1. Neutrals (N) before another direction are usually counted as +1, while Neutrals before a button are usually counted as +2.
It’s also possible to buffer inputs after a block or hit to shorten the time to perform an attack.
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«By this logic, f,f moves would come out at their listed speed+1»
Are you sure about this? I think adding 1 frame to f,f moves is when you buffer them, not when you do them from neutral: f (1 frame), N (1 frame), f + attack (attack coming). When doing f,f or b,b motions, you can’t skip neutral position. The game must register the forward direction and the neutral direction. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Fhworang, N8monster is right. Since Tekken runs at 60fps, that is actually enough to time to enter a f,f move with a character, and buffer it so that the moves comes out with only one frame to add for the initial “f.” In the first frame, “f” is inputted, and in the immediately following frame, f+2 is inputted. What I think we should point out is the amount of frames in a single forward step. How many frames does it take to complete the animation when you simply just type “f,n.” If a “n” is registered for the second frame after the initial “f,” then of course, the move will come out on any following frame that is inputted before the “f” animation ends.
the listed values are the speed of the attack after the last button is pressed.. but including the input frames.. the fastest possible speed to perform a ff3 (which could be 16 frames), would be 1+16 = 17 frames..
although it is possible to do ff or bb movements with a neutral inbetween, this is different from their fastest possible speeds..
this is sorta why most multiple movement attacks are listed with another number in parenthesis and a ~ (ie 16(17~)) in the frame data tables.
«although it is possible to do ff or bb movements with a neutral inbetween, this is different from their fastest possible speeds»
I’m not sure how can you do f,f without doing a neutral; if you don’t do a neutral beetwen each f,f, then you are just doing F. How does this differ from the fastest possible speed if the game allows one frame per input? Can you f,N in one frame?
the time for a “neutral” in tekken to register is longer than you think. tekken runs at 60fps, so the time for each input is 1/60th of a sec, or 0.0167 seconds. so you can mash stuff out and it would count as single inputs. this is different from literally having the dpad/stick return to neutral to do the next forward of a f,f.
from our example above, if it were fn before another direction, it would be 1+1+speed, if it were fn before a button, it would be 1+2+speed for the minimum possible speed, and these would be the kind of numbers youd see listed on the frame data tables.
tho im no official. this is what ive gathered from my own experience and from the uk future press guide, who got their info from the original japanese softbank guide.
n8Monster, we seem to differ in everything we discuss everywhere. =) Ha, ha, ha, ha
Thanks for your explanations.
Fhwoarang:
f,f IS in fact f,n,f, you are right about that
however, the n part is just a practical limit due to the input system, but is not technically necessary to perform the move, so if you buffer the f,n part at the end of the freeze window of a previous move or blocking, then wait 1 frame after the freeze is over for the buffered command to take effect (you start walking forward for 1 frame) and then press f, the move will take only 1 extra frame to come out, that’s why -14f moves can be punished by Mach Breaker
in contrast, if the f,n part leads to a special stance or step, i.e. technically required, it does take 2 extra frames, that’s why MSEWGF can only punish -13f moves
Old old old, but someone asked about frame data so I saw the link.
I did some playing around, and so long as my testing equipment is right when I did the following
f(8msec)N(8msec)f+2(8msec)N(8msec) with bryan, 50% of the time F+2 came out, and 50% of the time nothing came out.
I’m going with one input per frame.
Actually, it has to be f(16msec)N(16msec)f(16msec)f+X(16msec), i.e. holding the second f for at least 2 frames. But the 8msec thing remains the same, just slightly off 50% each.
[…] would first like you to read SDTEKKEN’s Frame Data Guide before going on. After having read the guide, you should somewhat grasp the idea of why frame data […]
Hmm it all made sense until the input frames section, I read all the comments but that only made it slightly less confusing.
First of all which are the problems that needs to be solved?
If a deathfist can be performed in 15 frames that means the animation must start the same frame you press the last input, is this correct?
This would also mean that you can either punish -14 attacks with deathfist from block or buffering a direction during blockrecovery is not possible.
“By this logic, f,f moves would come out at their listed speed+1”
This would mean that you’re not counting the frame for N, can the game register Neutral between a frame, is this correct? I deffinitly dont think so, as a matter of fact im 99.99% sure that these statements are all incorrect unless you are talking about punishment ofcourse, but in that case it should be mentioned.
But if you are talking about punishment then the rest of the section makes no sense unless you switched topics without mentioning it.
Then I get really confused by this:
“Neutrals (N) before another direction are usually counted as +1”
If f,f is not considered f,n,f then what is? Can you please give me an example of such an attack?
“while Neutrals before a button are usually counted as +2.”
Please give an example, this is very illogical and hard to grasp how it could be correct.
This is how I’ve understood the buffering_input limit system actually works:
Say you do a deathfist while dancing around, thats d(1 frame) d/f(1 frame) f+2(1 frame, during this frame the game registers that the attack has been done and will start the animation during the next frame) 13(animation time to hit) = 16 frames.
It kinda says itself, the monitor is showing a frame when you are pressing the button, the game will register the attack during the same frame you’re pressing it, but the animation will start the next frame, it wont “repaint” the frame that is on the screen cause you finished your attack.
So out in the open a deathfist can never be faster then 16.
Now say you block an attack with 15 frame reckovery.
You are allowed to buffer a direction + N but not 2 directions, you are allowed to do this pretty early in the animation, at the end of your reckovery you are also allowed to buffer a button(the button buffering option is irrelevant in this example). So this is what happens if you try to punish with your deathfist:
d(bufferable in block recovery, then you have to wait for the recovery to end) d/f(1 frame) f+2(1 frame) + 13 frame animation = 15.
So if done correctly you can punish -15 with deathfist but not -14 or less(duh).
Now lets use an f,f… attack as an example, say you’re playing Bryan and wanna do f,f+2 which has an animation of 13 frames. Like someone else said, N has to be registered as well, so out in the open its f(1 frame) N(1 frame) f+2(1 frame) +13 frame animation = 16 frames.
So out in the open its 16 frames just like deathfist.
But this time its a little different from block because you can buffer f,n while still recovering, then comes the first frame after the recovery has ended: f+2 (1 frame) + 13 frame animation = 14. Which makes it possible to punish -14 attacks with it but not -13.
If you wanna punish an attack that has -10 with a d+1 and succed, this dosnt mean that the animation starts when you press the button, its simply a case of attacks being allowed to be buffered in recovery so they can activate right away as soon as you can move again, the reason for this is to facilitate for the player so he dosnt have to use JF timing every time he wants to punish with a hopkick or a jabstring or whatever.
The reason I compared these 3 attacks is that logcially speaking they explain everyting if you think about it:
If the animation starts the same frame you press the button then deathfist would be able to punish -14 attacks OR buffering a direction wouldnt be possible.
But buffering IS possible because you can punish faster recovery atacks with Bryans Machbreaker compared with Pauls deathfist which proves that whatever is happening is happening in blockrecovery since they are equally fast in the open. Ofcourse I cant disprove that you can do f,f in 2 frames and completely skip the frame for N inbetween, but Im 99.99% sure that this is NOT possible.
And if its not possible then the rest falls into place, since buffering is possible then the reason you can punish -10 with a 10 frame jab is not cause the animation starts when you press the button but because the game registers the attack during recovery and starts the animation immediatly as soon as you can move again. Either that or you could punish -14 with deathfist and -12 with Machbreaker, which you cant, so problem solved.
I apologise if this conclusion has allready been reached but I have failed to understand the explanation ^_^
In either case I think this section need to be redone, its not easy to grasp what you even mean, and like Ive argued Im sure the whole section is just incorrect or missing vital info.
actually you can perform these moves a frame faster with a buffered input command. on block the buffered
f isnt counted. Meaning you dont actually move. But the game engine still recognizes the input. Upon recovery you can finish the command input and it will seemlessly animate the move. A Bryan f,f+2 is counted as -14 punisher because its a buffered move that comes out as quickly as possible. Without the buffer and the true time of F(+1),F(+1)+2(speed). You would recieve the extra frame which would make you not counter in time.
Only with the buffer can you punish properly and timely. In the case of the N(+2) an example would be Lei Wu Long. F,N,1,2,1,2. The F is 1 frame of movement on a scale of 60. The N is read as 2 frames Because of the delay/animation of special movement that certain characters have. If you performed King’s Back grab b,f+1+2 the f+1+2 is treated/counted as 1 frame…because they were pressed simutaneously. As in the case of f,N,1,2,1,2 for Lei, the nuetral is stand alone and treated as a delay/hesitation animation…choose Lei and f,f then do f,N notice how the f,f moves faster than f,N in complete animation/frames. If this didnt help just respond and ill try better to explain..
Well guys, this is a great discussion, but you are forgetting one important factor; the human response-time!
The game does 60fps. This means that one second has 60 parts and 60 possible inputs you could put in.
Pals Deathfist is said to be done by d (1 frame or 1/60 of a second), d/f (1 frame or 1/60 of a second), f+2 (last input, 13 frames or 13/60 of a second) = 15 frames or 15/60 of a second.
But the truth is that no human being can put in directions that quickly! You can never manage to do this motion with you thumb and finger in 15/60 second. No way! Never!
In reality you will do; d (1 frame (the GAME is fast and only needs 1 frame to notice)) but yoy will continue to press down for maybe 5 or 6 frames, then you will do d/f (1 frame, or the game needs to notice it in one frame, but in reality you can do d7f for quite a bit) and then f+2.
I think a QCF+2 motion you surely need half a second or so. Actually in practice mode, on video recording and input showing you can see with your own eyes that you can put many different input, but the move still will come out if it is done somewhat in the right time.
Because noe human can move his thumb or fingers down in 1/60 of a second and then d/f the next 1/60 of a second and then press f+2 the next 1/60 of a second. (even if the animation comes out in 13 frames the game only needs 1/60 of a second to register the input.
However, no human is this fast so you have actually a lot of time in your hands to do the right move.
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[…] open up on Play-Asia and other sites, we’ll be sure to link them here! Speaking of Frame Data, did you know SDTEKKEN has data up for 3 characters already? Check it out here. Possibly related […]
can u send frame data on dragunov to email when avail?
To DrBhup666.
¨Have you ever seen a high level game or an intermediate game even. Are you seriously saying it takes half a second to do a deathfist. So basically you cant punish anything thats more then -44 on block with a deathfist. You couldnt have thought your argument through.
If you have DR, record a -20 attack followed with block, if you cant punish that attack with the other controller I dont know what to say honestly. -20 is considered extremely easy to punish with deathfist, even -16 is not a big problem. And try long enough and im sure you’ll get it on -15 as many top players can do quite consistantly. now im talking -15, thats 3 times faster then what you argue is possible.
To chocobo14:
I dont know if you were adressing me but I agree with some of the things you say some are just wrong. I dont wanna get into a further discussion, I belive my reasoning was clear enough in my previous post.
Thank you
WTF?!
Hi
Thank you for article
I have a small block Horoscope It’s terrible :)
Thanks again…